Ancestor from Italy to Norway/Sweden 1426?

[GunnHeidi]

Hi!

I need help to hopefully identify my ancestor. If not find his full name, but at least where he came from.

Around 1450's in my family there was a coat of arms, which the origin is unknown, in all of Scandinavia. There is no information about it in either Norway and Sweden in modern times as well.

The description of the coat of arms and information available comes from older heraldic books from 1680. And that information came from the archives of Johan Kruckow (king's advicer, King Frederick 1), who married into my family. These documents are now lost.

The coat of arms is described as a crest with 9 yellow lilies on dark blue background (3,3,2,1), with a lily on the helmet. Occasionally was shield with 9 white lilies on a red background.

In the text below the shield it says that this belonged to Thore "Thorgundsen", and that the family had its first origin in the kingdom of Naples.

"Thorgund" is a woman's name. A man who took his mother's name when he either lost his father before he was born or when he was very small. And also when her mother was better off socially.

It is speculated that "Thorgund" is erroneous for Bourgogne or Aragon, since a great-grandchild was called in a tax file for Barbara "Aargunen".


King Erik of Pomerian was king of Scandinavia (Kalmar), and in 1423-1425 he traveled on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. He also stayed in Venice and Rhodos. On the way back home to Scandinavia, he took at least one aristocrat with him .... Ivan Anz Frankopan aka Johan "Valen"

http://www.croatianhistory.net/etf/ibler.pdf

Pietro Querini says in his report that he met a man speaking his language when he was in Sweden in 1432, but he never mention meating a nobel italian there.
Older historians in Scandinavia have thought Johan "Valen" was italian, and awarded him this coat of arms.

Now Johan "Valen" has been identified as Ivan Anz Frankopan who went together with King Eric back to Scandinavia in 1426, and became a Steward on Stegeborg, until the uprising began in 1433/34. He returned home in 1434. His son Matteo remained in Sweden, ....he is mentioned in connection with the sale of property in 1437.

King Eric employed foreign noblemen as bailiffs and stewards of his castles on his estates in Sweden.

Although Querini didn`t meet any compatriot, doesn`t mean that there had not been one or more there. They could have died or left Scandinavia.

But of course it can also be someone from Querini`s company. I have no record of who these men were. Only the 3 mentioned in the stories.

Does it exist a record of the surviving men? And where they came from?

So many lilies indicates France / Napoli.

I was made aware of a coat of arms belonging to the family Balbi. I understood that we are talking about two families Balbi, one from Genoa, and one from Venice. I found that the coat of arms of the family from Genoa has 3 fishes in it.
Another coat of arms had 6 lilies, which Balbi family it belongs to I don`t know.

And I was also told that the town of Ronco Biellese in Piedmont has 9 yellow lilies, blue shield.

I have looked through several sites with Italian heraldry online, I am sure there are more.

A lot of information here... but I hope someone can help me with some ideas where to search??

Thanks in advance!

Greetings from Norway!

Gunn-Heidi

[dgionco]

Hallo Gunn-Heidi

Iy you are looking for noble people, with lilies on "coat of arms" I guess that the best site is
http://www.iagiforum.info/

Family names as Querini and Balbi are nobles names typical of Venice.
As you say there were Balbi also in Genova.

In "iagiforum" site they speak only about noble people and they know a lot about "coats of arms" and noble people data.

In this site we discuss especially about "normal" people, without "coat of arms"

Davide

[GunnHeidi]

Ok sorry!

I didn`t know that.

Thanks for help!

Gunn-Heidi

[dgionco]

In the site Iagiforum there are peole very expert about Italia "coats of arms".

I think they can help you.

[GunnHeidi]

Thank you!

I have registered, pending approvall..............

Gunn-Heid