Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
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- Livello1
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Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Hi
I have received some great help on this forum, and Erica (Ery1) has found some of my ancestors for me in Lucca Province
Erica uncovered a new ancestor (Maria Stella Oliva Mazzei) born in Gello, Lucca 1808 (daughter of Iacopo Mazzei and Rosa Guazzelli).
I thought she was my Great-Aunt Stella Mazzei, but I since found another Great-Aunt (Maria Stella Mazzei) married Martino Lucelli in Livorno in 1846, but that states Stella was 31 so born about 1815.
I couldn't find the 1st Stella's death or the birth of the 2nd Stella in the towns of birth of her siblings (Chiozza, Alpi di Stazzema, Colognora di Val di Roggio).
However, I have just received her death certificate from Livorno which states she died in 1867 in Livorno aged 50.
And it states she was born in Bagni di Lucca.
However, I can't see any online records for Bagni di Lucca from the early 1800's to about 1820.
Can anybody advise how I can find her birth or baptism, and possible births / deaths of more siblings in Bagni di Lucca (c.1805-1818) please,
I have posted the image link for the death of Stella (1867) and her husband (1869).
https://postimg.cc/gallery/GBFV9bF
Thanks
Darin (Newcastle upon Tyne, England).
I have received some great help on this forum, and Erica (Ery1) has found some of my ancestors for me in Lucca Province
Erica uncovered a new ancestor (Maria Stella Oliva Mazzei) born in Gello, Lucca 1808 (daughter of Iacopo Mazzei and Rosa Guazzelli).
I thought she was my Great-Aunt Stella Mazzei, but I since found another Great-Aunt (Maria Stella Mazzei) married Martino Lucelli in Livorno in 1846, but that states Stella was 31 so born about 1815.
I couldn't find the 1st Stella's death or the birth of the 2nd Stella in the towns of birth of her siblings (Chiozza, Alpi di Stazzema, Colognora di Val di Roggio).
However, I have just received her death certificate from Livorno which states she died in 1867 in Livorno aged 50.
And it states she was born in Bagni di Lucca.
However, I can't see any online records for Bagni di Lucca from the early 1800's to about 1820.
Can anybody advise how I can find her birth or baptism, and possible births / deaths of more siblings in Bagni di Lucca (c.1805-1818) please,
I have posted the image link for the death of Stella (1867) and her husband (1869).
https://postimg.cc/gallery/GBFV9bF
Thanks
Darin (Newcastle upon Tyne, England).
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- Livello1
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Hi Darin!
As you probably know it depends a lot on the Italian fragmentation at the time. Italy became a unified country in 1861 and before then civil records were not homogeneous. For instance, Southern Italy is surprisingly detailed as early as 1809, while Northern Italy, in particular territories under the Austrian Empire, is lacking such information. I think Lucca was under the Granduchy of Tuscany, but I have no clue whether there are state records or not.
Churches are quite reliable, but you have to be lucky in finding a parish whose priest or administrator is willing to help: while civil servants are supposed to assist citizens in their search (it's their duty), priests have A LOT to do in their daily life and they can't spend much time for this, unfortunately.
Suggestion: check which "Diocesi" you are looking for, contact them and ask whether they keep centralized church records for the past or if parishes still have them. In the first case, either you are lucky enough to find someone helpful, or you have to visit the Diocesi archive physically (I will have to do this in Isernia as they do not assist); in the second case, you also have to hope that the priest is picking up the phone from time to time. They are usually really nice, but they have little time for this, so don't expect them to get back at you quickly.
As you probably know it depends a lot on the Italian fragmentation at the time. Italy became a unified country in 1861 and before then civil records were not homogeneous. For instance, Southern Italy is surprisingly detailed as early as 1809, while Northern Italy, in particular territories under the Austrian Empire, is lacking such information. I think Lucca was under the Granduchy of Tuscany, but I have no clue whether there are state records or not.
Churches are quite reliable, but you have to be lucky in finding a parish whose priest or administrator is willing to help: while civil servants are supposed to assist citizens in their search (it's their duty), priests have A LOT to do in their daily life and they can't spend much time for this, unfortunately.
Suggestion: check which "Diocesi" you are looking for, contact them and ask whether they keep centralized church records for the past or if parishes still have them. In the first case, either you are lucky enough to find someone helpful, or you have to visit the Diocesi archive physically (I will have to do this in Isernia as they do not assist); in the second case, you also have to hope that the priest is picking up the phone from time to time. They are usually really nice, but they have little time for this, so don't expect them to get back at you quickly.
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- ery1
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Hi Darin,
in my opinion they're the same person.
Gello di Camaiore (near Candalla waterfalls) is not far from Alpe di Stazzema (today called Stazzema).
Her birth act below :
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 8.jpg.html
I also read that she died in hospital and often those who reported death were illiterate and the age of the deceased might not be right, the same act has been transcribed so there could be errors.
It also happened to me that those who declared death did not know the surname or the origin of the deceased or even the age was wrong, with an age difference of 10 years !
However the ancient name of Bagni di Lucca was Bagno a Corsena (Diocese of Lucca) :
http://stats-1.archeogr.unisi.it/repett ... hp?id=1658
Here you can find records from Antenati :
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... a+Corsena/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
in my opinion they're the same person.
Gello di Camaiore (near Candalla waterfalls) is not far from Alpe di Stazzema (today called Stazzema).
Her birth act below :
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 8.jpg.html
I also read that she died in hospital and often those who reported death were illiterate and the age of the deceased might not be right, the same act has been transcribed so there could be errors.
It also happened to me that those who declared death did not know the surname or the origin of the deceased or even the age was wrong, with an age difference of 10 years !
However the ancient name of Bagni di Lucca was Bagno a Corsena (Diocese of Lucca) :
http://stats-1.archeogr.unisi.it/repett ... hp?id=1658
Here you can find records from Antenati :
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... a+Corsena/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... +di+Lucca/
Erica
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- Livello1
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Thanks Livello / Erica
That does help.
I've contacted the diocese and also the Archivio Storico Diocesano di Lucca, but both have said I would need to know the exact church as there are several within the area of Bagni di Lucca.
I think you could be correct Erica that Stella is the same one born in Gello, 1808.
I thought differently due to the ages given on her 1846 marriage and 1867 death.
It's a pity that Pescaglia isn't included in the 1841 census as that would have included Iacopo Mazzei and Rosa Guazzelli's children.
Thanks again for your help.
Darin.
That does help.
I've contacted the diocese and also the Archivio Storico Diocesano di Lucca, but both have said I would need to know the exact church as there are several within the area of Bagni di Lucca.
I think you could be correct Erica that Stella is the same one born in Gello, 1808.
I thought differently due to the ages given on her 1846 marriage and 1867 death.
It's a pity that Pescaglia isn't included in the 1841 census as that would have included Iacopo Mazzei and Rosa Guazzelli's children.
Thanks again for your help.
Darin.
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- Livello1
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Hi again Erica
A few years back we looked for the birth of Ersilia Ricci (daughter of Diomira Mazzei) who was born in Livorno 1855 / 1856, although her parents were from Colognora.
You had mentioned her parents were probably seasonal workers which is why she was born in Livorno.
I've now found her birth document within her "Allegati di Matrimonio" in Lucca 1889 to Biagio Nieri.
It states she was actually born 21st May 1854 in S. Forte or S. Fonte?
Do you know which part of Livorno this is please?
Out of interest her godmother is listed as "Stella Lucelli" - who would be Stella Mazzei.
This is the link to the document:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=721079
Thanks again
Darin.
A few years back we looked for the birth of Ersilia Ricci (daughter of Diomira Mazzei) who was born in Livorno 1855 / 1856, although her parents were from Colognora.
You had mentioned her parents were probably seasonal workers which is why she was born in Livorno.
I've now found her birth document within her "Allegati di Matrimonio" in Lucca 1889 to Biagio Nieri.
It states she was actually born 21st May 1854 in S. Forte or S. Fonte?
Do you know which part of Livorno this is please?
Out of interest her godmother is listed as "Stella Lucelli" - who would be Stella Mazzei.
This is the link to the document:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=721079
Thanks again
Darin.
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Nell'atto si parla di "libri dei nati e battezzati in questo S. Fonte". Non si tratta di una località, ma del sacro fonte o fonte battesimale. Il timbro poi è quello dell'Archivio della Cattedrale di Livorno, dove quindi è stata battezzata Giulia Erzilia Clorinda Ricci.
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- Livello1
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Re: Stella Mazzei - died Livorno 1867
Hi mmogno
Thank you very much for that.
Regards
Darin.
Thank you very much for that.
Regards
Darin.
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